<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Failure of Citizen Journalism?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.levjoy.com/blog/2008/10/23/the-failure-of-citizen-journalism/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.levjoy.com/blog/2008/10/23/the-failure-of-citizen-journalism/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:57:22 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: stephen/GlobalPundit</title>
		<link>http://www.levjoy.com/blog/2008/10/23/the-failure-of-citizen-journalism/comment-page-1/#comment-65014</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen/GlobalPundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 07:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.levjoy.com/blog/?p=994#comment-65014</guid>
		<description>I was always curious what people thought of this...

 Where do journalists/reporters who get paid to do reporting for corporate paymasters, but also participate in Citzen Journalism because of the gaping abyss left by mainstream media work, actually fit in?

  The pleasure and frustration is that, in conjunction/and with the assistance of fellow CJ&#039;s, we&#039;ve essentially broken more stories despite giving the &quot;one phone call is research to me&quot; twits in the newsroom a chance to use materials collected.

 4 days later the msm weasels report on it like it&#039;s their gospel and one sits there steaming as you hear yr own copy being read.

 It&#039;s a curious thing.

 It&#039;s also at the point where I&#039;ll take something I put more work into to such places as TheUptake or DigitalJournal and not even waste my time with the so-called &#039;real media&#039;, excepting alt weeklies or network afilliate radio.

 As i like to say, most msm is where &quot;press releases go to become news and news goes to die&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was always curious what people thought of this&#8230;</p>
<p> Where do journalists/reporters who get paid to do reporting for corporate paymasters, but also participate in Citzen Journalism because of the gaping abyss left by mainstream media work, actually fit in?</p>
<p>  The pleasure and frustration is that, in conjunction/and with the assistance of fellow CJ&#8217;s, we&#8217;ve essentially broken more stories despite giving the &#8220;one phone call is research to me&#8221; twits in the newsroom a chance to use materials collected.</p>
<p> 4 days later the msm weasels report on it like it&#8217;s their gospel and one sits there steaming as you hear yr own copy being read.</p>
<p> It&#8217;s a curious thing.</p>
<p> It&#8217;s also at the point where I&#8217;ll take something I put more work into to such places as TheUptake or DigitalJournal and not even waste my time with the so-called &#8216;real media&#8217;, excepting alt weeklies or network afilliate radio.</p>
<p> As i like to say, most msm is where &#8220;press releases go to become news and news goes to die&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.levjoy.com/blog/2008/10/23/the-failure-of-citizen-journalism/comment-page-1/#comment-64599</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 15:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.levjoy.com/blog/?p=994#comment-64599</guid>
		<description>Chuck - I agree that citizen journalism is a wonderful, necessary, and inevitable development.  We&#039;ve seen its influence on political reporting all over the place.  But again, looking at the single instance of election coverage -- which, for better or for worse, has been synonymous with &quot;political reporting&quot; for at least the last year -- I&#039;ve seen little impact beyond the examples you and I quoted. 

And to be clear, I love the work you guys are doing at the UpTake, though, like Chris Anderson wrote, I&#039;d call it &quot;networked journalism&quot; instead.  You&#039;re a pro at this :).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chuck &#8211; I agree that citizen journalism is a wonderful, necessary, and inevitable development.  We&#8217;ve seen its influence on political reporting all over the place.  But again, looking at the single instance of election coverage &#8212; which, for better or for worse, has been synonymous with &#8220;political reporting&#8221; for at least the last year &#8212; I&#8217;ve seen little impact beyond the examples you and I quoted. </p>
<p>And to be clear, I love the work you guys are doing at the UpTake, though, like Chris Anderson wrote, I&#8217;d call it &#8220;networked journalism&#8221; instead.  You&#8217;re a pro at this <img src='http://www.levjoy.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chuck Olsen</title>
		<link>http://www.levjoy.com/blog/2008/10/23/the-failure-of-citizen-journalism/comment-page-1/#comment-64508</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Olsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 07:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.levjoy.com/blog/?p=994#comment-64508</guid>
		<description>Citizen journalism is alive and well. I agree it may not have had a major impact on the presidential election, but it can and does have a more significant on local *political* reporting. 

The UpTake is providing unprecedented video coverage of statewide congressional races in Minnesota, for example - providing perspectives and stories often missing before.

We have had some impact on the national scene though - we had one of the only interviews with the &quot;Obama is in Arab&quot; woman in Lakeville, MN who said she sends out letters telling the &quot;truth&quot; about Obama. Those stories aren&#039;t game changers but they do enrich and deepen the existing MSM, etc. coverage.

And of course, our RNC coverage was one of the few places you could get unfiltered look at what was really happening in the streets of St. Paul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Citizen journalism is alive and well. I agree it may not have had a major impact on the presidential election, but it can and does have a more significant on local *political* reporting. </p>
<p>The UpTake is providing unprecedented video coverage of statewide congressional races in Minnesota, for example &#8211; providing perspectives and stories often missing before.</p>
<p>We have had some impact on the national scene though &#8211; we had one of the only interviews with the &#8220;Obama is in Arab&#8221; woman in Lakeville, MN who said she sends out letters telling the &#8220;truth&#8221; about Obama. Those stories aren&#8217;t game changers but they do enrich and deepen the existing MSM, etc. coverage.</p>
<p>And of course, our RNC coverage was one of the few places you could get unfiltered look at what was really happening in the streets of St. Paul.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.levjoy.com/blog/2008/10/23/the-failure-of-citizen-journalism/comment-page-1/#comment-64200</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 03:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.levjoy.com/blog/?p=994#comment-64200</guid>
		<description>Carlos and Chris - good points about the somewhat false distinctions between pro and amateur.  The FiveThirtyEight example points to this problem, especially since Nate Silver does make his living analyzing stats, blurring the line between pro and am. 

And I definitely agree with the idea of just calling all of this &quot;networked journalism,&quot; whatever that really means. 

But the trend that I&#039;ve been noticing -- and that led me to this critique -- is that almost ALL of the influentials this time around are much more traditional that I expected they would be.  There isn&#039;t a reliance on the network in the way that many of us expected.

That&#039;s where this emailers-as-sources thing gets interesting.  Maybe, while we&#039;re theorizing about the importance and usefulness of the network, this old school, two-way form of communication is actually more networked and useful than we thought, and newer, more consciously constructed forms like Off the Bus are proving to be of limited usefulness. 

This gets to another point, which is that, after a few years of preaching about the primacy of bottom-up activism, I think we&#039;re seeing the resurgence of Web 1.0-like editorial control over content.  That, combined with the grassroots stuff, is what makes things interesting and relevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carlos and Chris &#8211; good points about the somewhat false distinctions between pro and amateur.  The FiveThirtyEight example points to this problem, especially since Nate Silver does make his living analyzing stats, blurring the line between pro and am. </p>
<p>And I definitely agree with the idea of just calling all of this &#8220;networked journalism,&#8221; whatever that really means. </p>
<p>But the trend that I&#8217;ve been noticing &#8212; and that led me to this critique &#8212; is that almost ALL of the influentials this time around are much more traditional that I expected they would be.  There isn&#8217;t a reliance on the network in the way that many of us expected.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s where this emailers-as-sources thing gets interesting.  Maybe, while we&#8217;re theorizing about the importance and usefulness of the network, this old school, two-way form of communication is actually more networked and useful than we thought, and newer, more consciously constructed forms like Off the Bus are proving to be of limited usefulness. </p>
<p>This gets to another point, which is that, after a few years of preaching about the primacy of bottom-up activism, I think we&#8217;re seeing the resurgence of Web 1.0-like editorial control over content.  That, combined with the grassroots stuff, is what makes things interesting and relevant.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.levjoy.com/blog/2008/10/23/the-failure-of-citizen-journalism/comment-page-1/#comment-64192</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 03:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.levjoy.com/blog/?p=994#comment-64192</guid>
		<description>I think one problem with this analysis is the bright-line distinction it makes between amateur and pro, between &quot;citizen journalist&quot; and professional.  I think you yourself allude to the difficulties when you point out that &quot;Time was, the Marshall and Sullivan and Smith types were referred to as citizen journalists, since they were working in a new medium outside of the mainstream. But at this point ...&quot; and so on. Doesn&#039;t that mean that Nate Silver will probably be what you consider a &quot;pro&quot; in a couple months, or years?

What if we took Jeff Jarvis&#039; advice and just dropped the distinction between amateur and pro, between citizen and something else, and just started talking about networked journalism? 

I wrote about this in some of my recent newsroom research. Instead of asking who is an  amateur / pro / cit. j, etc, maybe we should ask:

• What kind of work does this worker journalist do? Does she report? Add context? Give opinion? Reframe the story? Facilitate community conversation?

• Where does he or she publish that work? Online? In print? With a formal media institution, or within a diffuse collection of networked journalists?

• Finally, what is the formal contractual relationship between the worker journalist and their publishing entity? Do they work for free? Engage in piecework? Feelance? Or have they managed to obtain the kind of salaried work that was once more common in the world of journalism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one problem with this analysis is the bright-line distinction it makes between amateur and pro, between &#8220;citizen journalist&#8221; and professional.  I think you yourself allude to the difficulties when you point out that &#8220;Time was, the Marshall and Sullivan and Smith types were referred to as citizen journalists, since they were working in a new medium outside of the mainstream. But at this point &#8230;&#8221; and so on. Doesn&#8217;t that mean that Nate Silver will probably be what you consider a &#8220;pro&#8221; in a couple months, or years?</p>
<p>What if we took Jeff Jarvis&#8217; advice and just dropped the distinction between amateur and pro, between citizen and something else, and just started talking about networked journalism? </p>
<p>I wrote about this in some of my recent newsroom research. Instead of asking who is an  amateur / pro / cit. j, etc, maybe we should ask:</p>
<p>• What kind of work does this worker journalist do? Does she report? Add context? Give opinion? Reframe the story? Facilitate community conversation?</p>
<p>• Where does he or she publish that work? Online? In print? With a formal media institution, or within a diffuse collection of networked journalists?</p>
<p>• Finally, what is the formal contractual relationship between the worker journalist and their publishing entity? Do they work for free? Engage in piecework? Feelance? Or have they managed to obtain the kind of salaried work that was once more common in the world of journalism?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Carlo</title>
		<link>http://www.levjoy.com/blog/2008/10/23/the-failure-of-citizen-journalism/comment-page-1/#comment-64010</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.levjoy.com/blog/?p=994#comment-64010</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; it turns out that readers — responding to blogs via e-mail, of all things — are the new citizen journalists. Rather than try to compete with the pros, they augment the work of people like Sullivan and Smith, and in turn get to actually participating in their reporting. &lt;/i&gt;

Citizen journalists, or free labor?

I never saw Josh Marshall as a &quot;citizen journalist.&quot; He was a journalist, who figured out long before others how to crowdsource his reporting. 

Others have caught on.

One other point: Citizen journalism is alive and well, but maybe less so in the blogosphere. Citizen journalism has evolved from blogs, out to YouTube, and Twitter, and maybe even wikipedia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> it turns out that readers — responding to blogs via e-mail, of all things — are the new citizen journalists. Rather than try to compete with the pros, they augment the work of people like Sullivan and Smith, and in turn get to actually participating in their reporting. </i></p>
<p>Citizen journalists, or free labor?</p>
<p>I never saw Josh Marshall as a &#8220;citizen journalist.&#8221; He was a journalist, who figured out long before others how to crowdsource his reporting. </p>
<p>Others have caught on.</p>
<p>One other point: Citizen journalism is alive and well, but maybe less so in the blogosphere. Citizen journalism has evolved from blogs, out to YouTube, and Twitter, and maybe even wikipedia.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
